Help me with a conundrum, Oppo.

"TheOnelectronic" (theoneelectronic) 02/07/2016 at 18:41 • Filed to: None

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So I’m thinking about trading the BRZ in for something else. Honestly it’s nothing to do with the power or anything else about the BRZ specifically, it’s just that I don’t think a small sports car is for me.

The three main contenders are the WRX, STI, and Focus RS.

The Focus RS conceivably pushes all of my buttons. It’s properly AWD, stupid powerful, MT, and a hatchback. Additionally, I had an ST previously and loved it. The big, glaring, potentially dealbreaking issue is the seats. It’s got the same seats that were in the higher ST trim levels, and I know from experience that they are not comfortable for me. The BRZ isn’t quite as bad but even that gave me crippling back pain after a long trip. So getting the RS would mean having to spend an additional amount of money and effort to replace at least the driver’s seat. And, of course, there’s apparently all sorts of dealership shenanigans going on with it. Markups and such.

The STI is again, on paper, my kind of car. I had an 05 STI previously and it was one of my favorite cars, period. The problem is that I drove the ‘15 a while back and was just... not impressed. (Or imprezzed). While it had more power on paper than my ST, it just didn’t feel as quick or as eager. I chalk that up to the difference in powerband and torque delivery. It probably didn’t help that the 6'5" 400+lb salesman insisted on riding along, and it was a 3000ft ASL test drive. I honestly feel that if they offered it with the FA-20 in STI trim it would be amazing, but I haven’t heard any signs that they’re planning that.

Which brings me to the WRX which is probably my frontrunner. I am, however, concerned about road noise. Another issue I have with the BRZ is that it’s quite loud at highway speed in a deceptive way. I swear it doesn’t sound loud, but any music or audiobooks I’m playing have to be turned WAY up to be really audible (no pun intended). It’s like a lot of the detail washes out. I frequently pull off to get gas, get back in, and when the stereo comes back on at the same volume I had it on the highway it’s almost painful. (I don’t have any sort of speed-sensitive volume doodad) When I got back from that same long trip that broke my back, my ears kept ringing. From my short test drive the other day, it was hard to judge how the road noise in the WRX compared. It’s not that I really mind road noise in general, it’s just that I don’t like having to turn the volume up that much. (this is obviously a concern, if not greater concern, with the STI). Honestly the biggest concern I have is whether I’d spend the whole time thinking about what could have been had I gotten the RS or STI.

But by far, the biggest issue, is I’ve only had the BRZ for about 6 months, and while as best I can run the numbers the depreciation from having it for another year would be about equal to buying a brand new WRX and keeping THAT for a year, I feel like it’s generally a bad move. I can’t even buy used to soften the blow since ‘15 WRX’s are selling for basically MSRP. (Which of course will provide me NO benefit when I go to sell it because that’s how the universe works.)

Mostly I just wanted to get some of my thoughts out of my head and onto “paper.” I’m planning on going back to the dealer I drove the WRX at and see if I can take it out on the interstate (the day I was there traffic was clogged up something awful) and maybe test drive the ‘15 STI Limited they have to get a better feel for that.

E92M3 > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 18:49

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How about a M235i? All of your considerations are “econobox” feeling. You might enjoy something with similar performance, but a little better build quality. Even a GTI would feel a little more grown up. Of course I don’t know your age, but I’m not imaging a huge difference between a STI/RS coming from a BRZ (besides the extra power, and losing the fun factor of RWD). None of those would be comfortable for long drives, and I’m afraid after a year or so after the newness wears off, you’ll be tired of them too.

pjhusa > E92M3 02/07/2016 at 19:12

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I like BMWs. Therefore, I concur.

6Cylinder > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 19:12

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I’m going to purchase a ‘16 WRX in August. Can't roll with the outdated EJ engine in the STI. Not really known for longevity.

TheOnelectronic > E92M3 02/07/2016 at 19:16

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The BRZ is uncomfortable mostly because I end up sitting twisted in the seat because the bolsters are too narrow for me. The WRX seats don’t have that issue.

And maybe I haven’t been exactly following BMW that closely but isn’t an M235i, you know, CONSIDERABLY outside the price range here?

Also, I’ve done the luxury performance thing. Had a 335i and a B8 S4. While they were both great cars (the S4 more so, sorry) they weren’t $60k great for my purposes.

Snailkite > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 19:31

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I can’t comment on the BRX, but my 2016 WRX exhibits a lot of the symptoms you describe. It’s road noise but it’s also the crappy stereo. I don’t think it can power the door speakers sufficiently as you raise the volume, so you lose the lows and mids relative to the highs. I’m probably going to upgrade the sound system and install some door deadening. This is my only issue with the car.

Aaron M - MasoFiST > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 19:52

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The WRX will be loud. The new ones are better than the old ones but they’re still minimal on the sound deadening. You’re at the price point where the sort of cabin isolation you seem to want and performance begin to become an either/or situation. The Volvo recommendation isn’t a bad one, but the modern Volvos, while being quite fast, are not known for being entertaining handlers.

Honestly, if you aren’t feeling the small car thing and don’t want to pony up for the luxury performance thing either, you should look at an Accord Coupe. The V6 with a 6 speed is an entertaining cruiser and reasonably quiet.

Grindintosecond > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 19:53

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I read quite a bit of self-discussion, but I didn’t hear a single thing abouut what you really want in a car. Why the fixation on AWD Subaru? Anything wrong with another manufacturer and another drive system on either end? Personally, when I shopped for a car that couuld tick the boxes of my wish list, one car came up every single time: Two small kids in car seats fitting in the back seat. Manual. Reliable. And the best handling car that could do those things. That car came up evvery time. Truthfully, I’ve been very happy.

So, what’s your wish list of what you need in a car?

jjhats > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 20:12

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It would be stupid easy and you would make money trading your RS seats for base focus seats. With that said I'm not sold on the RS because a wrx seems to be 80% of the car for 60% of the price. I would find a 2011 hatch and enjoy the subaru rock solid value. You can easily buy one and sell it in a year for basically the same price. But I have an ST and really like it so if you have the financial means to buy an RS it looks like a very special car

marshknute > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 20:14

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Had a 15' WRX. All your concerns about it being loud are true. The radio was at at least 75% at all times.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 20:27

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Mustang yo! I’m 6'4" and 195 and I found it supremely comfortable to drive. The v6 is quite peppy too.

TheRealBicycleBuck > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 20:28

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I would expect the STI to be as loud or louder than the WRX. It certainly rides rougher. I daily a ‘14 WRX hatch and test drove a ‘14 STI sedan. The STI had a much stiffer ride. The more harsh the suspension, the louder the road noise will be.

Subarus hold their value well. I’ve been looking since I was t-boned a couple of weeks ago. Comparable used ‘14s are selling for about $2,000 less than when new.

I know that the STI is just a hair faster, but it just isn’t worth the hassle or extra cash to me. Now watch, I’ll end up eating my words....

bob and john > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 20:38

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at that price point, your pretty m,uch loking at either/or. not both.

TheOnelectronic > TheRealBicycleBuck 02/07/2016 at 20:45

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Yeah. Rough ride doesn’t really bother me much, and honestly road noise wouldn’t either if I weren’t concerned for my hearing.

The big advantage to the STI in my eyes is the drivetrain. It’s got fancier diffs and a linkage-operated shifter vs. the WRX’s more open diffs and cable shifter.

TheOnelectronic > Highlander-Datsuns are Forever 02/07/2016 at 20:46

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I drove a ‘15 Mustang GT (with some Roush make-noise bits) and while it drove perfectly well, it just didn’t grab me. I guess it’s just not my kind of car.

71MGBGT Likes Subarus of Unusual Colors > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 20:50

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I’m like 4500 miles and 132 days into 2016 STi ownership and I had a 13 WRX for a while too. Any questions for me?

TheOnelectronic > Grindintosecond 02/07/2016 at 20:58

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Really it came down to those three because there’s not really anything else that catches my interest. The ST was the only FWD car I’ve driven that didn’t constantly remind me that it was FWD, but I try not to do the same thing twice. The Fiesta ST is a bit small, and frankly the look of the car just doesn’t sit well with me. Has that squashed look that most small hatches seem to have.

GTI’s have just never interested me. I cannot muster any enthusiasm for Volkswagens. I drove a Mk. V quite extensively a few years back and was just entirely underwhelmed. The Golf R is enough north of my preferred price range that I’m not really considering it, on top of the fact that it’s a golf.

I’m also not a big fan of the whole “Buy a 20 year-old german sports car for cheap” strategy because it’s never cheap in the end.

Really, I’m just looking for something that’s fun to drive, and not unpleasant enough to make driving a chore. When it comes down to it, that’s the biggest issue with the BRZ. Whenever I think of going somehwere, there’s that little spark in my mind that says “Ugh, but then I have to get in the car.” That shouldn’t be the case.

Brian Silvestro > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 20:59

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I honestly feel that if they offered it with the FA-20 in STI trim it would be amazing, but I haven’t heard any signs that they’re planning that.

They are, by the end of next year.

Honestly the biggest concern I have is whether I’d spend the whole time thinking about what could have been had I gotten the RS or STI.

This is why I’ll never own a WRX.

TheOnelectronic > Aaron M - MasoFiST 02/07/2016 at 21:01

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The thing is, I’ve had a few cars that should be in the same range of loudness, but it’s not been as much of an issue. Maybe I’m just getting old.

TheOnelectronic > Snailkite 02/07/2016 at 21:03

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I’ve got an aftermarket head unit in the BRZ that made an absolute world of difference. It went from being a very shitty system to one of the best I’ve had. I plan on carrying that over, so that’s not as much of an issue.

TheOnelectronic > Brian Silvestro 02/07/2016 at 21:03

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By the end of next year meaning like fall/winter of 2017? Sounds about right for what I predicted they’d do.

Brian Silvestro > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 21:05

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Just make sure to get it in yellow

TheOnelectronic > bob and john 02/07/2016 at 21:06

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Maybe not 100%/100%, but it’s finding the split where it’s an acceptable compromise matters.

bob and john > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 21:07

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*shrugs* at this point, i figure if i want the fun sporty shit, i just hop on the bike. gib luxo cruiser.

TheOnelectronic > Brian Silvestro 02/07/2016 at 21:08

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I am quite fond of yellow cars, but I would be amazed if they actually offered that color. Subaru’s repertoire of interesting colors seems limited to blue.

TheOnelectronic > Brian Silvestro 02/07/2016 at 21:09

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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

The problem for me is that it’s easy to keep taking this farther and farther. Make enough “but for just a little bit more...” jumps and you end up looking at used GTRs and R8s.

Brian Silvestro > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 21:14

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Agreed

Brian Silvestro > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 21:15

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Yeah but everyone and their douchey, flat-brimmed cousin has a wrx. STis are much more special, and iconic.

Aaron M - MasoFiST > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 21:18

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The Subarus are louder in part because of their design and level of refinement. A Ford Focus ST could be a bit more tightly put together as far as NVH goes but that doesn’t solve your issue with the seats.

signintoburnerlol > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 21:40

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If you want the most refined car, then get a Golf R.

jkm7680 > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 22:00

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The WRX has a really bad interior to be honest. Feels like a Corolla.

TheOnelectronic > jkm7680 02/07/2016 at 22:09

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I’ve never gotten the bad interior comments. I mean, I understand that it’s not all made of premium infant skin leather, but there’s nothing inherently wrong with it. It can’t be worse than a 996 interior.

TheOnelectronic > signintoburnerlol 02/07/2016 at 22:09

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I’d like to be able to stay awake, though.

TheOnelectronic > Brian Silvestro 02/07/2016 at 22:11

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I dunno, I’d put it at 50/50 in terms of douchey flat-billers. Besides, if I ruled out any car with an obnoxious owner base I’d be looking at... uh...

Give me a minute to think, here.

signintoburnerlol > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 22:12

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Tune it and put an exhaust with a butterfly valve in it. The R’s always spit fire...

Bytemite > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 22:13

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Yeah...sorry to tell you this but your reasons for giving up a sports car seem like old man gripes.

jkm7680 > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 22:13

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The 996 interior is poopoo.

But the WRX interior just felt below average for a $26,000 car.

TheOnelectronic > signintoburnerlol 02/07/2016 at 22:17

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The problem with VAG products, for me, is that the interiors all look basically the same. I’m looking through photos on VW’s site and I could easily be looking at an updated version of my old S4.

That, and it’s sort of sitting at the top of what I’d be willing to pay. And I’m skeptical of AWD Volkswagens because in the past they’ve just been the “FWD with benefits” type.

But, just for you, I’ll seriously consider it.

Steve in Manhattan > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 22:22

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New or used R32?

TheOnelectronic > Bytemite 02/07/2016 at 22:23

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I’m... not entirely sure that “The seats cause me physical pain” and “I’m continually amazed at what -won’t- fit in the trunk” are old man gripes. Nor is “I’d like to avoid hearing loss.”

TheOnelectronic > Steve in Manhattan 02/07/2016 at 22:24

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I’m not a big fan of AWD VW’s. They tend to be “FWD with benefits” haldex systems.

Vicente Esteve > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 22:50

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You want a refined sporty vehicle? GTI.

Interior is Audi-like, comfort is excellent and performance is very very good.

If you spring for the R then it’s a whole different league.

AM3R shamefully returns > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 22:51

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M235i or 335is is a good sub $40k used choice for a fun car that is pretty luxurious. I would go STI if I were you, I absolutely love the new ones.

TheOnelectronic > Vicente Esteve 02/07/2016 at 22:52

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People somehow got the idea that I wanted a refined, sedate luxury vehicle. The only refinement I’m really concerned about is not going deaf.

TheOnelectronic > AM3R shamefully returns 02/07/2016 at 22:53

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The fact that either of those could be sub-$40k already brings up a pretty big issue there.

FromCanadaWithLove > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 23:01

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I’ve got a near base M235i, and it is pretty well equipped from standard. You should be able to get one around $44k US. It’s a bit more than an STI, but not a huge amount. It should address all of your issues (I drove mine 1450kms in one day and survived). To vouch for BMW, one of the nice things about the M235i is you don’t pay extra for performance bits. The options are all related to navigation, paint, sunroof etc (at least in Canada). Give one a test drive, anyways.

Edit: I just looked up STI prices in the US. You get a better deal than we do. A Sport-tech STI is more than a base M235i here.

E92M3 > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 23:03

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Not really if you buy used. I’d rather have a used M235i, 335i, or even a 328i than a new STI. If you just have to have new you could lease for the same money, but I wouldn’t recommend that. Again I don’t know your age. Being in my mid 30's your choices are too boy-racerish for me. Even if I was in my 20's I would want something RWD, but it never snows here so I don’t need AWD.

Vicente Esteve > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 23:31

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The Golf spoiled me on cabin refinement. I get in my fathers Tacoma or my moms Expedition and I miss the quietness of the VW.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > TheOnelectronic 02/07/2016 at 23:32

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so a bmw in the high 30s is a big issue but a sti at 35k isn’t?

TheOnelectronic > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 02/07/2016 at 23:43

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In a few years the BMW has dropped AT LEAST $10,000. Based on a quick look, some have lost $15,000 of value in a year or two.

I can find 10 year-old STIs that have depreciated $10,000.

It’s just a matter of depreciation rates, since that’s the major cost of owning a car, at least for me. Sure, at some point the BMW will bottom out and retain value fairly well. It’s not always clear when that is, though.

TheOnelectronic > Vicente Esteve 02/07/2016 at 23:44

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I guess I’ve just done the whole “refined performance luxury etc...” thing and didn’t quite find it to my liking.

TheOnelectronic > E92M3 02/07/2016 at 23:49

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The thing is, those M235i’s have dropped, based on a quick autotrader check, $15,000 in two years. I’ve seen 10 year-old STI’s that haven’t depreciated that much. The cost of depreciation on a near-new luxury car is just absurd.

And yeah, they’re maybe a bit “boy racer,” but I don’t have anyone to impress, and I try not to let a car’s reputation influence whether I’ll consider it or not. I can’t quite manage it when it comes to Mustangs and Camaros, but I try.

E92M3 > TheOnelectronic 02/08/2016 at 01:01

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You do have a point there. STI’s hold their values quite well.

uofime-2 > TheOnelectronic 02/08/2016 at 10:39

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When you test drive the STI make sure the SI drive is in “Sport #” the other one you tested bust have been in “intelligent” if you thought it was sluggish. Also make sure you give it RPMs, STI’s don’t spool until ~3500.

WRX’s are a bit loud, a big contributing factor is the Dunlop tires they come with they’re actually louder than the WS80 Blizzaks I put on for winter.

Coming on and off the highway I do adjust the radio volume. Some lovable nuts on NASIOC have sound deadened the crap out of theirs a proportedly fixed that.

I love my FA20DIT it spools just over 2k so it is a lot of fun in daily driving without having to wring it out as much as an STI.

feel free to ask if you have questions

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > TheOnelectronic 02/08/2016 at 12:53

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Used legacy gt? I think awd, man, fun and quiet is going to be limited to entry level lux. Quiet means sound deadening which means weight and runs counter the sport car mentality. If fwd is ok then maybe a Mazda 6 or accord.

It’s why I went for cheap beige mobile dd and cheap weekend car.

TheOnelectronic > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 02/09/2016 at 03:09

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I think something in my wording overemphasized the quiet aspect. I don’t really mind road noise, it’s just something about the BRZ’s noise profile makes it hard to hear.

I also think that some of it has to do with having moved. I think the roads here are just noisier. They’re not as bad as the screaming interstates that Texas is fond of, but there’s a pretty definite whine.